PHOENIX -- In the days since three people died in a Sedona sweat lodge, very little information has come out as to what actually happens during James Arthur Ray's seminars.

• Watch: Woman: James Ray Responsible For Sweat Lodge Deaths

One couple, however, believes the man some call a self-help guru might have gone too far even before three people died.

"(Ray is) very charismatic," said former follower Kurt, who requested his last name not be used. "He's a great speaker. He carries his presence very well. He comes across as somebody who has his act together as a leader."

His wife Lauren agreed.

"He has a very powerful message," she said. "He gets people motivated, and he's very good at what he does, and it's effective."

Kurt and Lauren turned to Ray about three years ago when they paid thousands of dollars to attend a weekend seminar in San Diego.

"You're very immersed, and (the seminars) go late into the night," Lauren said. "You leave kind of having your mind blown, saying, 'I'm thirsty for more. I want more. I want to step out of the work-a-day, everyday existence that I've been living sort of unconsciously.'"

The couple immediately signed up for two more seminars, each one longer and more expensive.

These seminars were "much more intense, way more metaphysical, way more esoteric," Lauren said. "You're in kind of an altered state when you're in there."

It was during that altered state that Kurt and hundreds of others did something most people would see as reckless, he said. Participants were required to sign a waiver that released Ray of any responsibility if someone got hurt.

"They had us put the sharp side of the arrow … (a) true, real archery arrow right on the soft part of your neck," Kurt said. "There's no bone behind it, just the real soft area .. your trachea is right there and your spine behind it, and you lean forward into the arrow."

As Kurt leaned into the arrow -- a challenge designed to make him face his fears -- his fear was realized.

"When the shaft snapped, a large piece went up under my glasses and penetrated my eyelid," he said. "(It) just missed my eye by an eighth of an inch. It was a deep cut -- probably needed stitches."

"I was greatly concerned," Laura said. "We could not tell if his eye was intact. It was a bloody mess."

Kurt and Lauren said they believe Ray was not prepared for anything to go wrong.

The event did not have the proper medical staff, and it took time for them to dig around for a first aid kit, Kurt said.

"I thought, 'Wow, they are not prepared for the potential there,'" he said. "At that point I thought, 'This is reckless.'"

Years later, Kurt had the same thought after hearing about the sweat lodge ceremony that left three people dead.

Ray crowded more than 50 people into the makeshift sweat lodge for two hours. By the end, people were vomiting, and two people -- Kirby Brown and James Shore -- weren't breathing.

Brown and Shore died that night. Liz Neuman, another participant, died a week later of multiple organ failure.

Lauren said Brown, 38, worked in her restaurant in a small town outside Lake Tahoe, and the three kept in touch after Brown moved.

It was "quite a shock" to discover that Brown died during one of Ray's events, Lauren said.

"(I thought,) 'Had he gone too far?'" she said.

Both Lauren and Kurt have participated in sweat lodge ceremonies led by Ray.

"I just started thinking about the people inside the sweat lodge, and what it was like having been at a James Ray event," Lauren said.

She said that people, after having "been through spiritual expansion in an altered state," were unable to read the signals their bodies gave them.

Lauren said she believes Ray was responsible for Brown's death. She also raised questions about the use of a plastic tarp in a sweat lodge.

"James Ray is the first one to say toxins are to be avoided, and plastic tarps from the hardware store … are made of a polyvinyl chloride," she said. "They outgas hideous substances, so I have concerns with that."

Officials in Yavapai County said they're treating the deaths as homicides. They have not been able to question Ray about what happened.

Kurt said Ray's actions surprised him.

"He fled the state -- didn't even talk to police," Kurt said. "That doesn't sit right with what his teachings are. There's something going on. I sense hypocrisy and that's frustrating me."

The couple said they also worried about the workshop's survivors. They said Ray did a disservice to them, too, because he took participants into a deep emotional state and didn't, in essence, debrief them afterward.

"If I were in a state of expandedness … and it went horribly wrong and then he left, that would weigh on me more than anything, because he brings the whole thing to a closure," Lauren said. "At the end of the workshop you need to close it up and contain the space and get people ready to go back out in the real world."

On Tuesday night, Ray posted a statement on his Facebook page responding to criticism about his actions.

"People are throwing out accusations and disparaging me and our mission. Yet despite that, and despite considerable criticism, I have chosen to continue with my work," he wrote. "I have taken heat for that decision, but if I choose to lock myself in my home, I am sure I would be criticized for hiding and not practicing what I preach."