PHOENIX -- Spanking is an age-old debate, but one few people talk about.

CBS 5 took an in-depth look at the spanking debate, asking what's right, what's wrong and what works.

"Child abuse, of course, is much more serious, much more harmful to the child, causes long lasting effects," said Dr. Sal Severe, a nationally known child psychologist and author.

Like many experts, Severe is against spanking.

"There's no real acceptable level, in my opinion," Severe said.

But new research indicates many parents might disagree.

Parenting Magazine shows 94 percent of 3- and 4-year-olds have been spanked at least once in the past year.

Seventy-four percent of mothers believe spanking is acceptable for kids 1 to 3 years old, and 61 percent of parents condone spanking as a regular form of punishment for young children.

"To paddle a child on the backside is a good thing to drive out foolishness and to show to your child that there are consequences to their poor behavior," said Tim Kelly, a Valley pastor.

Kelly, father of 4-year-old Chloe, 3-year-old Charis and newborn Caleb, practices what's been called "faith-based discipline."

"What we feel is the God-given way to communicated that this is wrong behavior," Kelly said. "We're not these extreme parents; we don't beat our children."

Kelly and his wife spank their girls, but not out of anger, he says. That would go against what the Bible communicates.

"It's a small swat on the backside. It's not a big grown-up swat," Kelly said.

Severe admits spanking isn't going to do any serious emotional and psychological harm.

"I don't think the two are necessarily connected, ever," Severe said.

But he's not convinced it accomplishes anything positive.

"Does a spank on the butt, a swat on the butt, get the child's attention? Yeah, it sure does. Does it teach them a lesson? I'm not sure about that," Severe said.

In 30 years of working with parents, Severe has found 60 to 70 percent don't spank. Ten to 15 percent who do, like the Kellys, do it for religious or personal beliefs, and the remaining 20 to 25 percent spank, but wish they didn't.

"They have not got a not got a better alternative. I think that is the reason why most parents do it," Severe said.

Spanking alternatives are what Severe teaches in workshops across the country.

"The key to any form of good discipline is consistency. But again, the approach that I advocate, of course, is looking for kids doing the right thing and building on that, through positive feedback and positive reinforcement and encouragement. Those are the ways that you get better behavior," Severe said.

He recommends loss of privileges for older kids and time out for young children.

The Kellys say that didn't work for them.

One thing the two do agree on is that spanking should never involve anger.

"If you're convinced that you need to use spanking, for whatever reason, the way to use it would be to tell your child ahead of time, 'If you do this, you're going to get one swat on the butt,'" Severe said.

"I can't just come in as a big bully to spank them. I've got to get down on my knees, on their level. I'm raising adults with my children. I'm not raising children," Kelly said.

In California, it's currently against the law for anyone but parents to spank a child. No state in this country prohibits parents from spanking.